What is the attitude towards Jesus Christ?

Jesus the Christ - Comment on 2012 February 22 (2)

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2012 February 22 (2)

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Information about the fate of clerics in the hereafter. Read more:

Today I read a passage in Emanuel Swedenborg’s (1688-1772) Apocalypse Explained (1757-1759) which is a commentary to Revelation 2:8. I bring it here because it brings some light into an aspect of the times of the end which is important when one wants to understand the differences between the true church and the false church and between the true believers and those who actually belong to the regiment of Antichrist.

Swedenborg was already mentioned on this website, 2010 Oct 04 – The very ancient language Sanskrit and Jakob Lorber, and here we now have something from his writings.

What follows here is a help to assess spiritual works and their authors, because it is here about the definition of a true Christian and of a bogus Christian or a person who tries to falsify true Christian teachings. It helps for instance to assess the Seth material: What is the attitude towards Jesus Christ?

Twelve days ago, 2012 Feb 10 – Scientist and clerics, we had some information about the fate of clerics in the hereafter and on this webpage of today we now have information about a very specific cleric, a known pope, and what he had to say on the other side and how he went to hell.

Here now follows Emanuel Swedenborg:

 

114.
Who was dead and is alive, signifies that He has been rejected, and yet eternal life is from Him. This is evident from the signification of being "dead," as being, in reference to the Lord, to have been rejected (of which see above, n. 83); also from the signification of "being alive," as being that eternal life is from Him (of which also above, n. 84). The Lord is said to have been rejected when He is not approached and worshiped; and also when He is approached and worshiped in respect to His Human only, and not at the same time in respect to the Divine; therefore He is rejected at the present time within the church by those who do not approach and worship Him, but pray to the Father to have compassion for the sake of the Son, when yet neither man nor angel can ever approach the Father and worship Him immediately; for the Divine is invisible, and with it no one can be conjoined by faith and love; since what is invisible does not come into the idea of thought, nor, consequently, into the affection of the will; and what does not fall into the idea of thought does not fall within the faith; for the things that are to be of faith must be thought of. So also what does not enter into the affection of the will does not enter into love, for what is to be of the love must affect man's will, for all the love that man has resides in the will (see The Doctrine of the New Jerusalem, n. 28-35). [2] But the Divine Human of the Lord does come into the idea of the thought and thus into faith, and from that into the affection of the will, that is, into love. From this it is clear that there is no conjunction with the Father except from the Lord, and in the Lord. This the Lord Himself teaches with the utmost clearness in the Evangelists, as in John: No one hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath brought Him forth to view (John 1:18). In the same: Ye have neither heard the Father's voice at any time, nor seen His shape (John 5:37). In Matthew: No one knoweth the Father save the Son, and he to whom the Son willeth to reveal Him (Matt. 11:27). In John: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father but through Me (John 14:6). In the same : If ye know Me ye know My Father also; he that seeth Me seeth the Father. Philip, believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? Believe Me, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me (John 14:7-11). And that the Father and the Lord are one (John 10:30, 38). I am the vine, ye are the branches; apart from Me ye can do nothing (John 15:5). [3] From this it can be seen that the Lord has been rejected by those within the church who approach the Father immediately and pray to Him to have compassion for the sake of the Son; for these cannot do otherwise than think of the Lord's Human as they think of the human of another man, thus they cannot think at the same time of His Divine as being in the Human, still less of His Divine as conjoined with His Human as the soul is conjoined with the body, according to the doctrine received throughout the universal Christian world (see above, n. 10, 26). Who is there in the Christian world, acknowledging the Divinity of the Lord, that is wing to be one who would place the Lord's Divine outside of His Human? When yet to think of the Human only, and not at the same time of His Divine in the Human, is to view the two as separated, which is not to view the Lord, nor the two as one person; and yet the doctrine received throughout Christendom is, that the Divine and the Human of the Lord are not two persons but a single person. [4] It is true that men of the church at this day, when they speak from the doctrine of the church think of the Divine of the Lord in His Human; but when they think and speak by themselves aside from doctrine, it is altogether otherwise. But be it known, that man is in one state when he is thinking and speaking from doctrine, and in another when he is thinking and speaking aside from doctrine. When man is thinking and speaking from doctrine, his thought and speech are from the memory of his natural man; but when he is thinking and speaking aside from doctrine, his thought and speech are from his spirit; for to think and speak from the spirit, is to think and speak from the interiors of one's mind, from which is his real faith. Moreover, man's state after death becomes such as were the thought and speech of his spirit by himself aside from doctrine, and not such as they were from doctrine, if the latter was not one with the former. [5] Man does not know that he has two states in respect to faith and love; one when in doctrine and another aside from doctrine; but that the state of his faith and love aside from doctrine is what saves him, and not the state of his speech respecting faith and love from doctrine, unless the latter state makes one with the former. Yet to think and speak from doctrine respecting faith and love is to speak from the natural man and its memory, as is evident merely from this, that the evil, when with others, can think and speak thus equally with the good. For the same reason also evil preachers equally with good, or preachers that have no faith equally with those that have faith, can preach the Gospel, and, to appearance, with similar zeal and affection. This is because the man, as has been said, then thinks and speaks from his natural man and its memory. But to think from one's spirit is not to think from the natural man and its memory, but from the spiritual man, and from its faith and affection. Merely from this it is clear that man has two states, and that it is the latter state, not the former, that saves him; for man after death is a spirit; therefore such as he was in the world in respect to his spirit, such he remains after his departure out of the world. [6] Moreover, it has been given me to know from much experience that the man of the church has these two states. For after death, man can be let into either state, and is also actually let into both. Many of these, when they have been let into the former state, have spoken like Christians, and from such speech have been believed by others to be Christians; but as soon as they were remitted into the latter state, which was the real state of their spirit they spoke like devilish spirits, and altogether in opposition to what they had spoken before (see the work on Heaven and Hell, n. 491-498, 499-511). [7] From this it can be seen how the statement is to be understood that the Lord has been at this day rejected by those within the church; namely, that although it is held from doctrine that the Divine of the Lord must be acknowledged and believed in the same degree as the Divine of the Father, for the doctrine of the church teaches that "As is the Father so also is the Son, uncreate, infinite, eternal, omnipotent, God, Lord, and neither of them greater or less, before or after the other" (see the Creed of Athanasius); yet they do not approach and worship the Lord and His Divine, but the Divine of the Father; this they do when they pray to the Father to have mercy for the sake of the Son; and when they say this they do not think at all of the Divine of the Lord, but they think of His Human as separated from the Divine, thus of His Human as similar to the human of any other man; and then they also think not of one God, but of two, or three. To think in this way of the Lord is to reject Him; for by not thinking of His Divine at the same time that they think of His Human, by the separation they thrust out the Divine. Yet these are not two, but one person, and make one as soul and body do. [8] I once spoke with spirits who when they lived in the world were of the popish religion, and I asked whether in the world they ever thought about the Divine of the Lord? They said that they thought about it whenever they saw from doctrine, and that they then acknowledged His Divine to be equal with the Divine of the Father, but that apart from doctrine, they thought of His Human only, and not of His Divine. They were asked why they say that the power which His Human had was given to it by the Father and not by Himself, since they acknowledged His Divine to be equal with that of the Father? At this they turned away, making no answer. But it was said to them, that it was because they transferred to themselves all His Divine power, and that they could not have done this unless they had separated the Divine from the Human. That with them the Lord has been rejected, everyone may conclude from this, that they worship the pope instead of the Lord, and that they no longer attribute any power to the Lord. [9] I will here also mention a great scandal heard from the pope called Benedict XIV. He openly declared that when he lived in the world he believed that the Lord had no power, because He had transferred it all to Peter, and after him to his successors; adding his belief that their saints have more power than the Lord, because they hold it from God the Father, while the Lord resigned it all and gave it to the popes; yet that He is still to be worshiped, because otherwise the pope is not worshiped with sanctity. But because this pope even after death claimed the Divine for himself, after a few days he was cast into hell.

 

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